April 4, 2007 by SS4LIFE
Posted in
First off sorry for the double post but I accidently put this up as a blog
If you could change something about the current KYMBA what would you change?
As I have stated before I would like to see it more accepting and focused on the members. I'd love to see more group rides, and even some trips scheduled. Maybe even having a couple of re-ocurring ride days scheduled would go a long way.
I could certainly see myself leading a sunday morning otter creek newbie friendly ride a couple of times a month.
feel free to add your thoughts
The best thing that could
The best thing that could happen to KyMBA is having the majority of Officers live outside of Louisville...way outside in addition to restructuring. Then and only then could it be statewide. Look at SORBA as an example. SORBA is a much larger organization but you get the idea. Their leadership is spread out. Currently the majority, if not all, of KyMBA's Leadership is in Louisville. I know that they want to help. I know that they make attempts to help. But, wiithout changing the structure of the leadership to allow for more involvement from leaders in other areas KyMBA will never make an impact. Unfortunately as time passes and leaders of KyMBA come and go the overall perception of KyMBA to those outside of Louisville is not good. This won't change until the makeup of KyMBA changes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Louisville needs to let go of KyMBA. Louisville has enough leaders to keep things going there. KyMBA's membership of the past few years has grown substantially and half or more of those members do not live in Louisville. KyMBA's leadership should reflect that growth.
But don't they have
But don't they have elections every so often? So anyone could run and win and be the leader.
KyMBA Leaders
I agree with what Scott is saying. I am in no way bashing the current, past or future volunteers that assume the leadership roles, but there needs to be a more collaborative effort statewide. In my opinion, there are a few things for KyMBA to be more state focused:
First, is the creation of a LOCAL MTB organization in Louisville that addresses their issues with the local officials. Only after those attempts to reconcile differences are at a standstill would the local organization request KyMBA to step in followed by IMBA if those talks are also unfruitful. Currently, KyMBA is Louisville's local voice and that can deter someone from the Eastern, Western or Southern part of the state from becoming involved in the organization. If they see the majority of time and effort from the state organization focused on one local area, it doesn't truly represent a statewide organization.
Second, I think the leadership should be a committee of the local or regional organizations' presidents. That would better represent the statewide initiatives and boost membership statewide.
Third, there has to be more buy-in and organization at the local or regional level. Everyone knows that it takes time and effort to volunteer, but that is part of the reason KyMBA is a "Louisville club". With more people to draw from, it is easier to fill the offices locally.
Again, I applaud the efforts of all the past, present and future volunteers of KyMBA, but would like to see more collaboration by creating local or regional organizations and giving them an equal voice in the Association.
I agree fadeto
kymba's presence doesn't have a great appeal to people in south eastern ky...not trying to bash, but the only in person stories I have heard from our riders have been gloomy to say the least. One was e-mailed and told he was not welcome to come on a ride by the pres. and the other had to defend himself physically during a race, only to later have several members complain to the officials that their friend, who was getting passed was totally innocent, then he was booted from the race. I personally have not had any bad experiences, no real good ones either. I did however get a killer deal on a trainer from bikeshop!!! And I still go to their site, but have no desire to become a member; as I too feel that the organization should be LMBA, as I have heard it stated on their site at one time or another. I do not blame any one for this as Louisville has a large number of riders down there. So with those numbers comes strength in supporting a few select people and someone from Maysville, Harlan or Monticello will unlikely be in a serious leadership role. This is just geography, and the way it forms clicks. So untill they get some leadership with large statewide ideas, their group will remain a similar size, maybe growing as they promote Louisville biking. And I don't think their region breakdown on the boards does that. If they want to grow, then the leader needs to care about the state as a whole and show it.
btw... SS, nice thread, good to see you turning your energy into something good :)
Wow I gotta say I am a
Wow I gotta say I am a little surprised by the comments so far. But I guess I shouldn't be. I know KYMBA has issues for sure and yeah I can see how it could look like a louisville club. The point that 1/2 the membership is situated in and around Louisville Metro is an important one.
But then again just what does that say. Well it says that a lot of people live around the major population center for the state. That makes pretty good sense. But it also says that perhaps that area does a great job of advocating and growing membership.
And given that it makes sense that many of the clubs leadership are from around Louisville. Cause if you run for election 1/2 the membership knows you and knows what you have done for the club. unlie those whose efforts outside louisville go largely unseen. But that being said aren't the members ultimately in control of the direction of the club? If Czar wants to be president why couldn't he? If fadeto wants to be VP why couldn't he?
My guess is cause they have better things to do and have just given up. Guess I can understand that too.
I
Your all right
I agree with most of the above statements. I think the initial concept of creating a State Wide organization is great however; one small detail that was overlooked was involvement. In order to successfully organize and operate a State Club you must have State involvement. It is virtually impossible to get anyone to commit at a local level moreless throughout the state. I'm not sure about the "You can't ride" deal or "The Race Issues" I wasn't there and did not hear about it. The majority of members are in Louisville, that is a fact that none of us can control. That said, the majority of activity is in Louisville. I tried the State thing and found it very dis-heartening. Not to mention non-fullfilling when you drive 150 miles only to find that no one wants to help. Its all about membership involvement. here in Louisville we are currently trying to pull this cherokee race together that EVERYONE was so excited about. Well, I suppose the Chicken Little effect took over and we can't seem to muster volunteers yet. That said ..... One other issue is Membership perks. I still think there should be some type of membership perk for dumping my $40.00. Give me a reason to pay.
KyMBA-Louisville / LMBC whatever, there needs to be local support and activities for local riders. Local advocacy. Local community involvement. Local Chapter. whatever. This Loacal area should have there funds earmarked for that particular area. Hum........
it would be hard...
to send money to each area, it would prolly lead to problems with one area wanting more and getting mad when the area next to it got more. I also wanted to mention; I seem to recall some talk of local chapters, but it didn't seem to get a lot of attention. But so long as the group is based in Louisville, it will be hard to gain support from the entire state, after all a lot of modern Louisville was built with coal severence tax moneys taken from eastern ky, so we are still mad over that anyway...lol , back to the local chapters. The only way it could work would be to break it down into districts, much in the same was high schools are divided. Eastern KY, to some, encompasses everything east from I-75, and they would class Pikeville with London, when Pikeville is two hours away. This region is geographically divided which adds to travel time making it hard to be a group.
Good point MEK! I suppose
Good point MEK! I suppose its a matter of perception really. for those outside louisville it looks one way. But in louisville looking out you see that few if any are willing to step up for whatever reason. So you end up with a few locals that will take on the responsibility and do the work. If it weren't for the few the whole thing would have collapsed a long time ago.
Statewide Involvement
I totally agree with you Marvin. As my Third point stated, there has to me more buy-in and involvement at the local and regional level. I know that Northern KY has stepped up their local efforts and established a regional group that interfaces directly with the leadership in their area.
SS - The elections are held annually and you are right, anyone can be nominated and run. However, you are also correct in that over half of the membership of KyMBA is in Louisville which perpetuates the election of Louisvillians.
My proposal is dependent on local/regional clubs being established and the presidents of those clubs would form what is now termed the ELC. Additionally the presiding official of the ELC (formerly the president) could be rotated from each regional club. These are all just my thoughts on how to move toward a truly statewide organization. As Marvin pointed out, it can't be pushed from Louisville or any other location. It has to be started at the local level.
This is not an effort to splinter, divide or otherwise harm the Association. It would be a great thing to have these regional groups host one or two group rides a season to promote the brotherhood (and sisterhood) of the common goal. This is already being done on the individual level outside of Louisville and with a little more effort, these informal local groups could become the regional club with an equal voice in the statewide organization.
I'm not against anything or anyone or the organization. I am a dues paying member and volunteer my time as a webmaster on the KyMBA site. I will continue to support whatever form or fashion the organization takes as long as it is promoting our sport somewhere. I don't care if it is Louisville, Lexington or even Southern Indiana because I know that only good karma can come of it.
Good discussion!
and that stinks about the
and that stinks about the race thing. Racing to me is played out, I've done a few but I have no desire to do it again.
Racing is where I found the most clickish, elistist behavior of all! Perhaps its the competitive spirit, but man I gotta say it was sickening!
T
Just wanted to chime in and
Just wanted to chime in and mention that it wasn't this ex-President that provided the "non-invite" on a group ride to Czar.
Exellent conversation and ideas expressed, hope there's more!
Some History
I'd like to reply concerning a few comments above about membership numbers, statewide involvement, and how this could happen.
First, about 50% or more of current members are from Louisville. But, about 2 1/2 years ago it was more like 99%. So the majority of the growth has come from outside of Louisville. This was in response to various things, one of which was Singletrack.net and KyMBA.org merging. KyMBA responded by making 4 to 6 trail grants of around $150 - $200 to some projects and trails outside of Louisville which was a great start. Since then nothing has really happened. That alone should have been enough for KyMBA to rethink its structure and game plan. If you own a company and all of a sudden 50% of your business is coming from outside of your target area...what do you do? You don't ignore them. You adapt if you want to keep them.
Those of you who said it are right in that it will take leaders in other parts of the state to step up and get involved. I think in some cases those leaders are stepping up. But Louisville is in control of KyMBA and KyMBA needs to roll out the red carpet to those leaders. There have been cases in the past of leaders from areas other than Louisville asking for help and getting little to none. That response is justified in the way KyMBA is structured. No one can expect a KyMBA Officer focusing on Louisville to go driving all over the state or go out of their way. However, we can expect that a KyMBA Officer SEE this situation and realize that KyMBA needs to be restructured to give those leaders a voice in the running of the club. Leaders from other areas aren't going to overthrow Louisville and try to take over because it would be pointless without the cooperation of those in Louisville.
What KyMBA needs :
President
Vice President
Secretary
Treasurer
Advocacy Director
Race Director
Webmaster
One Leader from each area in Kentucky that wants to be involved. This person could also hold one of the other positions above. The number of Leaders can fluctuate also. If an area makes a request and the current KyMBA Leadership agrees then a Leader from that area would be added. Leaders would keep their position as long as they stayed involved on a regular basis and reported back to the main group.
Each of the main Officers should have their sights fixed on the entire state. Making contacts, finding out who is doing what and who needs what. Which areas are ready to grow and just need a tiny push; and which areas need the most help. Then use KyMBA's resources and knowledge to make it happen.
The group above should run KyMBA, not focusing on any one area. Each 'Leader' would be a President of sorts for their area and with KyMBA's help form or help grow a local group to do the trail work etc. They would speak for their area as well as promote their areas agenda inside KyMBA. Each area group can be organized as they see fit but KyMBA could make some recommendations. Example: A Social Director is a great idea but not something that KyMBA needs, rather something that each area needs.
The current KyMBA Leadership is doing a great job...for Louisville. A recent post on KyMBA.org shows whats currently being worked on and 95% is in Louisville. This is fine, it is great for Louisville. I don't think they need to stop doing what they are doing. I think each person involved needs to decide whether they want to focus on Louisville or on Kentucky. If its Louisville then by all means move over, keep doing what they are doing and one of them be the Louisville Leader that is a KyMBA Officer. If its Kentucky then that should be their focus. Going around seeing/asking who needs help and then helping them figure out what needs to happen and how KyMBA can help.
The most frequent questions I see from local 'Leaders' of small groups around the state are :
"Where can I get help?"
"How do we _______?"
"Who do I talk to about?"
Those questions are the ones that KyMBA should be answering and helping with and focusing on. Lets bring the rest of the state up to the level of Louisville not keep widening the gap. Those in Louisville will always say for the other areas to step up, speak up etc. They have, by more than doubling KyMBA's membership in the past few years, by trying to get involved and by asking for help.
Doing those things would make KyMBA a statewide group but it has to start with KyMBA. KyMBA needs to change the perception of those around the state and it starts with Louisville restructuring itself and letting KyMBA focus on the rest of the state.
Yes
Great points Scott however; as you are certainly aware, the "Red Carpet" has been rolled out for some time. I think we should take your advice and just offer up the pencil. You know....Sign up here to volunteer. Sign up here to be nominated. In all honesty we seem to talk the talk but trip over our own feet when we start to walk.
It may have been...
But the consensus still seems to be that KyMBA is taking care of Louisville first and foremost. Until KyMBA is restructured to focus on the rest of the state I doubt many will use that carpet. Even after it will take some time and effort for KyMBA to reach out consistently enough to change old habits and feelings.
I think the main point I'm trying to make is the rest of the state needs to see a true shakeup of KyMBA's Leadership. This is my opinion. There are probably a few ways things might work...this is just how I think it would work. If KyMBA's Leadership was left alone to focus on areas outside of Louisville for a little while it would change a lot of peoples minds about the club. If the guys out at Cave Run or another area were hearing from KyMBA Leadership regularly enough and possibly having a meeting or two it would turn some heads. It is difficult in some areas where momentum is lacking. KyMBA could help ignite that momemtum and give an area that has just a few "leaders" a jump start on getting more or better access to trails in that area.
czar
"One was e-mailed and told he was not welcome to come on a ride by the pres."
I was on this group ride. I was told that someone was not invited. I like the person who told you not to come but I do not agree with what he did. I'm sorry and I hope you will come to the next one.
Karma is a bitch,it even effects innocent bystandards. I broke my rib on this ride and was out for weeks.
What would you change
Thanks for the coolness ride offerings Boonerider. Bummer to hear that you busted a rib on that ride....
I laugh in a sick way at that deal from last spring. I'd not share oxygen with a person as lame as the one who emailed me.... :)
I didn't renew my dues and
I didn't renew my dues and have no intentions to. Anybody else not renew theirs???? Be interesting to see membership numbers of today compared to a year/year and a half ago...
i think we are more divided
i think we are more divided now than ever, that i can recall. We have all kinds of politics going on pulling everyone in different directions instead of one state union type of thing. So i bet you are right Czar.
There was mention that kymba gave out some area grants when the merger (kymba/singletrack.net) happend and not much afterwards. We recieved some tools down on this end of the state after the officer change last year that has seen tons of trail hours (thanks to the former officers for purchasing/making the tools, and thanks to the current officers for placing them in good use) I know another one went out to eastern ky. Some bridge work got taken care of at frankfort i believe as well. So there are still some good things going on outside of louisville area.
All the bridge work in
All the bridge work in Frankfort was done by one individual using his private funds. I am not that individual. KYMBA has not done any of this work in Frankfort at Capital View Park.
I don't think anyone is
I don't think anyone is begging you to stay with KyMBA. Bye
bob there was talk about
bob there was talk about refunding grants going to help ease the bridge building process (mike). I think it went out, but not 100% on that.
Like ATV smurf pointed out
Like ATV smurf pointed out earlier kymba is completely unknown in eastern kentucky. I know Gonzo holds an office and oversees things here at Cave Run, but Kymba hasn't visited Cave Run at all this year. I know Gonzo met with the person who was overseeing the redesign of the trail system here, but I believe he should've been supported more. Kymba could've scheduled a group ride here (just to show a lot of people use the trails and it is a destination for mtb biking) or could have shown their support in other ways. There may be something behind the scenes that I don't know about. I hope there is, but like other people have said before, I support an organization that promotes mountain biking. I know Gonzo has done his best and it's beyond aggravating dealing the forestry service because they believe its okay for the horses to tear up the trails. Like SS mentioned I think scheduled group rides would not only be fun, but help bring our state together as a whole. It would help get rid of the rumor the kymba is only a Louisville club.
ttttwell i know when i
ttttwell i know when i weedeated capital view park it was primarily out of my own pocket. Also all of the major trail work/ bridge building were privately funded by a gentleman. i hope that there would be local clubs around the area trails. these clubs would fall under one umbrella organization that would be non-profit status as to help with more donations. each club would have a designated board member. i know this idea was brought up higher but its good to keep it fresh in everyone's mind.
Something i had heard of
Something i had heard of recently brought some concern about localizing clubs. The story is that some older (50-60) year old man was ridining his MTB and fell off a bridge crossing. HE is suing the local bike club. This is in some state perhaps out west. I have yet to hear of the results. A few of us were considering starting a local group in Frankfort but after this report, we cooled. Who wants to be sued? IT is ridicules but nonetheless happens. I am sure someone out there ha more info on this.
"I don't think anyone is
"I don't think anyone is begging you to stay with KyMBA. Bye"
That is a good way to keep members..........
I am an outsider, but I can see and have seen for years that KYMBA has a bad rap for being a Louisville club. I hear several people try to change this, but nothing seems to change. KYMBA can not expect the rest of the state to jump on board just because they say they want to be a state wide organization. They have to act like they are. I understand it might not be easy at first. Traveling a long way to do work with out help is no fun, but you also have to think of the past and why locals are hesitant to jump on. If one would continue to make the effort, I am sure the momentum would build.
Here is one thing that keeps me from thinking it will not happen. HMBA is working on O'bannon woods and there is a ton of potential there, but the responses received about helping were negative. It was said that it was too far from Louisville to worry about. I am sorry, if O'bannon woods is too far, then the western part of the state is screwed!! The core part of HMBA that is trying to make this trail happen live in and around the Indy area. That is much farther away then Louisville.
I also know that the western part of KY has a group that has been doing a lot of good for that area. I am sure that group was started because of the lack of state wide vision years ago.
I used to think HMBA was a Indy only group. But, over the past few years I have seen a lot of people traveling a long way to help out all of the state. I know we did not get much help from a lot of different people for Ferdinand, but we did get some help and lots of tools to use. The president made several trips down and put lots of labor hours in to help us out.
Now, will all of that said. I am closer to more trails in KY then the good stuff in Indiana, but I am a HMBA member and not a KYMBA member. I have thought about joining several times, but all of the internal fighting has kept me from doing it.
the current kymba president
the current kymba president does travel through most of the state to meet with folks. he was down in lbl (western ky)to meet with the national parks folks about new trails (along with several other kymba members) and has been talking to a private land owner about opening trail up around mammoth cave. Its slowly happening i think, it just takes time. Sorry to hear about he obannon woods low turn out. I know alot of folks form louisville don't like to travel outside of louisville to ride. Why would they. They have 4 premium places to ride all within a 45 min area. Thats why i laugh when i hear repeated posts about more trail more trail more trail JM forest yada yada yada. If they lived in one of the surrounding areas for a little while they would be happy with one trail in their town. Its not like louisville mtbers are deprived of places to ride.
When I first heard about the
When I first heard about the O’Bannon Wood project I was really excited, but my enthusiasm was soon lost when I learned that O’Bannon woods is a big equestrian destination. Nick is right we have 4 great places to ride, that are getting better all the time, the one thing we lack is one large destination where you can go and get lost for a day, ride 30 to 50 miles without riding over the same trail again. O’Bannon woods seems like it has the potential to be that place.
Anybody that has built trail knows it is hard work, and as a trail leader I know how critical volunteer hours are to completing any given trail project. It is very important not to squander those precious volunteer hours, it is the quickest way to loose volunteers. I mention that because several years ago a project was done at Taylorsville Lake. From my understanding there was a lot of work done at Taylorsville by KYMBA volunteers, that work was destroyed in a matter of minutes when a group of horses came through on a wet day and shortly after a trail day had concluded.
I know there are some examples else where of multi use trails in which damage is minimal , I have ridden at Dupont, Pisgah and Tsali each allow horses on either some of the trails or all of the trails. Each have great MTB riding for the most part. I have also ridden trails in eastern Kentucky and been in aw by the damage horses have caused. I have seen the damage they have caused on local trails. Even at Waverly we have had recent horse use that resulted in minor damage (note horses are not allowed at Waverly). Based on my experiences it is very hard for me to put time into trails that will see horse use. It sucks to spend a day working only to have the work completely destroyed before anybody gets to ride it. So far I have not seen any declaration that horses will not be allowed (ever) on the trails that are going to be built by MTBers at O’Bannon woods. Once I see that declaration made and we have completed the Cherokee project I will be happy to help build trails in O’Bannon Woods.
I think that a strong effort is being made to make KYMBA a state wide club. As others have said for it to work people are going to have to step up in there local area in a leadership role to make it happen. Once you step up I am confident KYMBA will support you. The best opportunity for trails are outside of Louisville, the KYMBA leadership knows this, they you need your help to take advantage of those opportunities.
Straight from the HMBA site
Straight from the HMBA site about O'bannon woods.
(question)Will the 3 mile loop be hike/bike only?
(answer)If by hike bike only you mean no horses? Of course no horses will be allowed. We may eventually build some true multi purpose trails that include horse traffic, but they'd be in a lower traffic section.
quote" Based on my
quote" Based on my experiences it is very hard for me to put time into trails that will see horse use. It sucks to spend a day working only to have the work completely destroyed before anybody gets to ride it."
I completely agree with this statement, but it's upsetting because the trails 10 miles away from my home are shared by horses and from that statement I don't see any help coming. As you also pointed out some multi-use trails only suffer minimal if any damage from horse users. If the trail has rock or something hard underneath it the horses cannot since 3 feet deep in the mud. The DBNF currently has a grant so maybe someone at kymba can show them how to fix the trails so horses and bikers can share them. I would eve use some of the places you named as a model. The trails would not be singletrack for a while, but at least we would be able to ride them. With erosion and weeds the trails would once become singletrack or give off that appearance.
rod there was a guy doing
rod there was a guy doing some outside work for DBNF a while back. He posted on kymba's forums and i told him i coppied and pasted it over here as well. He was looking for ideas of what could be done with the trails and what everyone was looking for. Hopefully he will take some of our ideas and run with them. Segragated trail or alternating trail days will probably be the only thing that will save cave run. pea gravel beds like they did on caney loop will run mtbers off for good. I think the locking style rock beds would be to expensive to do all over cave run. What ever they do i hope they don't use a bulldozer again like last time!!! I traveled 4 hours to come work on your cave run on a buckskin trail day gonzo and one of the forest service ladies put on. Don't think kymba members don't care about it. That is one of the largest forests we have in ky and it does have potential if we got the FS help behind everything.